Sonntag, the fermented vegan cheese brand made from Tāmaki Makaurau, Auckland, came into our lives thanks to Trace, who discovered it at Florets, our local bakery at the time. For us, this dairy-free alternative to a staple food from life before plant-based eating is the best available in Aotearoa, New Zealand. Sonntag vegan cheeses have body, taste, and that nice balance between acidity and fat that makes dairy so addictive, perfect for snacking on crackers, toast, pasta, and more. So it was obvious that the person behind this magic, Helena Teichrib, who is also building a sustainability-focused business through animal-free products, had to be featured in our change-maker interviews. It turns out that Helena and I have crossed paths before through our permaculture network, and I always appreciated our casual conversations on environmental and social challenges at gatherings. So, on a warm late summer Sunday last March before our cross-country move, I met with Helena at the Grey Lynn market after she closed her stall. We chatted for a while, the kind of in-depth conversation between two curious persons who love talking, and I am happy to share this conversation with you. Here, Helena shares her professional upbringing, why and how she decided to create Sonntag, the world of dairy-free cheese and the challenges of a one-woman food business.
Hello Helena! Tell us a bit about yourself. Where are you from, and why did you move to Aotearoa, New Zealand?
I am originally from Germany, and I moved ten years ago to Aotearoa, New Zealand. That was mostly meant to be for a year of travelling. I had a partner back then; he was also from Europe, from the UK. As we were both not keen to live in each other's country, we were trying to find a place we'd like, so we were like, oh, let's go and check out New Zealand for a year and see from there. And then, you get settled here quicker than you think, I guess. It's like finding a job, and then, oh, we might as well stay another year. Say, oh, two years. Then I thought we should go for the residency. Now, I have friends here that I have known for years. I built a really strong life, so it can be tough because, you know, you're torn between two places.
For me, Aotearoa, New Zealand, is a very lovely country to live in, and so I was kind of stuck to it and stayed because I liked it. I mean, it is large as a country, but it is small in terms of population. It is quiet. People are chill, and they are more relaxed about things. I like that attitude. And lots of people are really into nature and live with that. So I really liked living here. I changed partners in the meantime, too. He was already living here, though he is also from outside of Aotearoa, New Zealand. He was here even longer than me, pretty settled in the country.
What did you do before Sonntag? Studies, travel?
I studied industrial design in Germany. I came to Aotearoa, New Zealand, a year after I finished university. So I worked a little bit in Germany, and then I came here to do a late gap year. During that travelling year here, I worked the whole time. I worked odd jobs and things like that, like backpackers' jobs. I also worked in retail to make a bit of money during Christmas time and those kinds of things. Then, I got into my main job, which was in industrial design, for an aerospace company. We did commercial interiors for airlines. We designed everything except the seats. So don't come at me for things like, "There's never enough space at seats" Ahah! I was not responsible for that. It was a really interesting job. I liked working with engineers and big projects, but over time, I also wanted to work more in an eco-friendly area.
So, you originally practised as an industrial designer. Why did you choose to leave industrial design and make plant-based fermented cheese? Tell us more about your venture into the world of dairy and its alternatives. Did you have previous experience making cheese? Conventional or plant-based?
When COVID hit, I had time to think a little bit about things and I was just rethinking, what did I want and what could I do? And so similar to how people started making sourdough bread and those kinds of things, I really got into plant-based cheese making.
The idea came from a project I did at Uni for product design. My university degree was not necessarily conceptual, and you had to find a niche to work for your thesis. I wanted to look at the relationship we had with our food, including from an environmental aspect because during university, it became clear that a sustainable lifestyle was quite important to me. So, I started to look into the whole thing about being vegetarian and vegan and did some research on the environmental impact of animal industries that came with it. My thesis then was about how we can value dairy more by going for quality instead of quantity.
My response was to make these foods homemade. I started making objects and products that could facilitate making dairy products at home, making yoghurt, making cream, making butter. At first, it was a way to do it yourself. But then also for people to realise that it takes a lot of litres of milk to make cheese, or even to make butter—you need litres and litres of milk, then you take the cream from that, you churn it, and from there you end up with a tiny amount of butter. It should really make you rethink that process. That was my theory behind it. To develop this work, I experimented with and made a lot of these products myself. So, I got into cheese making that way.
I used dairy cheese then, as part of the research, I went to farms and saw how the cows were kept and how the milk production was made. It really made me think twice about things. It made me feel more uncomfortable. As milk production is such a slow process, I realised what it entailed, and I didn't think it was nice. I could see the calves being separated from their moms. And the mom's reactions… The calves were in these little cages away, and they were, like, screaming. And that was happening on a nice farm.
Especially in Germany, there is not that much culture about having the cows outdoors. They are all in big barns, and they never really see daylight. But on the farm I visited, the cows were still in a nice place because they could run around freely in the barn. Later on, I went to another farm in the village. There was no place at all. And the cows were tied. They couldn't move at all. And that was just something normal in the industry. The people on this farm were like, 'No, we don't have them roaming; our farm is in the middle of the village. We don't have fields. We don't have space for them to run around.' There wouldn't be any rethinking about if it was an appropriate way to keep animals. It was like, 'That's just how it's done'.
From Uni, I was already in the mindset of cutting out more dairy. I didn't like the process. I kept experimenting a little bit—can I make yoghurt out of soy instead of milk and those kinds of things? But I was always flexitarian; I'm not fully vegan, and I still, to this day, eat other products occasionally, but I eat plant-based as much as I possibly can. And so a lot of time passed. I tried to cut out as much dairy as possible, but I still missed it a lot. I grew up with cheese, and cheese has a funky taste. It is very unique.
How did you start Sonntag? Did you have an inspiration or a business reference when you started? What processes did you put in place to create your business?
I also grew up with a lot of bread and the habit of putting something good on bread. Often, it was cheese, so I was missing cheese a lot. I had experimented a little bit with nut cheese before lockdown, but I was still working on the process of making it. How does this fermenting thing work? You just put this little bit of culture in, then a bit of yoghurt, and it makes a lot of yoghurt. And you wonder, is this correct? I was a bit uncertain about it all. Then, during lockdown, I did more research and really went at it to find out how fermentation works and what the science behind it was.
Step by step, I got more confident, seeing that it was working; as if I kept doing the same way, it was working well. I really liked the results tastewise. And so I thought, maybe I can make that as a business. Maybe that is possible. Looking at wanting to be a bit more sustainable in all parts of my life, including my professional life. A couple of months later, I eventually did the jump, and it was like, okay, now I'm gonna do a clear cut. I'm gonna quit my job and launch this. I felt that my previous job was quite demanding, with late hours, late calls, travel, and all these kinds of things, so I was like, yeah, I need that clear cut and just start something new from there.
I also had my partner who helped me with confidence and support and just someone to have ideas to bounce on and off and things like that. Generally, he is very interested in the business side of things. He is a good support, in terms of asking questions, the right questions. Really helpful. Otherwise, the business is mostly me. He's just a good robot duck if you'll call it that.
Before I quit my job, I was still doing a lot of experiments, creating different kinds of cheese. And then, once I quit, I switched things around by professionalising everything. For example, before, I used cultures that weren't actually vegan. For me, that was okay for testing because that's what was easily available locally. But it got me thinking these were non-vegan molecules, so the cheese couldn't be really vegan. I didn't want to support a business or a product that is grown from milk, even though it had tiny amounts of milk in it.
So then I had to find vegan cultures that I could use. It took some new experimenting to find something I liked, a lot of calling around. Later, I also went through a verification process, being a food business. Altogether, it took about six months until I could launch Sonntag after quitting my previous job.
So, I was operating for about six weeks, doing the Grey Lynn Market and the Vegan Market out West of Tāmaki Makaurau, Auckland, and then another lockdown happened. I was like, oh, okay, a little bit of a pause. While everything shut down, I tried to sell online and reached out to some retailers, a little bit of both. There was an option that came from the Grey Lynn Market with one of the bakeries that sell at the market. They had an online shop to sell the things from this market specifically, so I tagged along with them a little bit. I also had a newsletter and was able to promote and stay in touch with people that way. I also did drop-offs and food deliveries once a week.
What has been the most challenging lesson learnt since you started Sonntag? And the most rewarding?
Okay, let's start with the most rewarding one, I guess. I think I actually really like having skin in the game. Being an entrepreneur helps me a lot with my motivation because it's all on me; I enjoy that more. In an office type of job, I didn't really care about this thing. It was not the same responsibility. If I had thought the priority should have been there, there would have always been someone else who would eventually make the call. I didn't have control. And I ended up thinking, 'How much do I care about the job? I will get my money anyway'. It is not the right mindset in the long term, and it's not a good motivator for me. And so I really like the fact that I can make my own calls. It comes with risk, but I actually like that. It feels that I am in charge of my own life and in charge of how I want to run all aspects of my life. If I want to sleep in, I can sleep in, but I have to live with the consequences, and I like that.
Then, the most challenging aspect is running a small business. I did everything on a shoestring budget, so I didn't have to put a lot of money into the business from the beginning. But every time the business needs to grow, I need to actually invest money. So, having enough cash flow to grow the whole business without having to make a big investment is complicated. Ideally, I could just get $50k and be okay, or I could also go into a unit and pay $500 weekly rent, even though I'm not selling any cheese in shops at that moment. And just cover that for six months until I am in enough shops. It is that circle that is challenging as a small business. Being and staying small as a product and food-based business is actually not sustainable; it is really hard. You need to have a lot of turnaround to thrive. You have to be able to sell to a lot of people to make enough money. Currently, I am paying my rent and everything. I'm paying myself just enough. Yet, it is not sustainable for a long-term future and to save money.
At the moment, it is all my own money. There's no debt. Debt is another way I could develop, so maybe in the future, that is something that I will need to do. Get a loan from a bank to grow and make that investment. It is something that a lot of businesses do, and that is fine, but at the moment, I try to do without it. To really minimise the risk. So, even though I do like the risk that comes with self-employment, I don't want to over-leverage myself. I think I will stay that way for the moment. It is a balance between feeling that you can risk certain things, but I also don't want to over-risk it and stay on the ground. See what will happen. I want to be able to be quite certain that something is going to work before I go down that route.
Where are your revenue streams coming from currently?
Currently, I don't have a shop online, but I am in retail and a market seller. Retail is what I want to grow more. I am in that in-between phase where I need a bigger business, but lack of funding slows the process. I am at that border at the moment. Especially over last Christmas and New Year's, having been in the new shops, I was struggling to make and deliver enough cheese to meet demand. I am a home-based business, and my home kitchen is verified, so I am making everything at home just to keep the costs low; it makes it easy for me. But it comes with limitations of space, of when I can work and those kinds of things. So, with these limiting factors, I couldn't really make more. Over that last year's period, I was getting orders, and I would have liked to fulfil these orders quicker.
I am trying to really grow organically in that way, and so that will allow me to make more. Make things more efficient and maybe potentially, in the future, get help. At the moment, the whole business relies on me, and I have many hats. If I take a break, it impacts the sales. I am hoping to jump into the next place. I have been looking for the last couple of weeks for a place to move with the business, a new facility. I might have found something now. So this is still a little bit uncertain because nothing is signed for sure, but I think they were keen to have me in, and now I just confirmed that I am keen. So we're just drafting up things.
It is a bigger place, not a huge place or anything, but still bigger than my kitchen. It is a shared place; current occupants use it at certain times, a couple of times a year, essentially. So, not very often. And I can have it essentially the rest of the time. Also, it already has a professional kitchen setup, so I can make this move without having much capital. If I were to move into an empty space, it would cost me money. Commercial kitchen equipment is expensive, especially if you bought it brand new. You can get second-hand things, but then also it comes with uncertainty on how long it's gonna last, things like that. So that is kind of handy that way. So, yeah, that's a really exciting place. I'm quite excited about that. [Note: Helena and Sonntag did move into the new kitchen!]
A quick side question. Do you provide your dairy-free cheeses to restaurants?
No, I haven't yet. Maybe it is something to explore. I'm open to that. It's just like, from my experience, I'm already making premium products with low margins. At the same time, restaurants make premium, high-labour products, too. So they have to be very careful with how much money they spend. I would need to be more efficient, and give them a better discount. I do give the cheeses out, once in a while, to some places. Sometimes, people ask for cheese platters and things like that, but it is something I don't do on a regular basis.
More on your plant-based cheeses. What inspires the flavours and fermentation of your products? Can you share more about your product's development process?
What inspired my flavours are mostly the European dairy cheeses. That's why I started making plant-based in the first place. I do sliceable, hard-type cheeses. I call them the Garda-style cheeses, inspired by Gouda. The first one was the cumin cheese. It is a very typical Dutch top cheese. I really wanted to create something like that. It's nice to eat cheese with a good amount of cumin, which adds more flavour to the whole. Then, I made smoked Gouda with smoked paprika in it. It has a slightly different flavour profile. The idea came mostly from asking what people wanted and what they were missing, and they responded they would like a smoked type of cheese. And I was like, okay, let's try if I can make something that I would like as well. And it worked quite well.
It is the nice thing about selling at the markets. I can start experimenting with cheese flavours through samples and see if people like it. And then when people are asking, oh, yeah, do you have that again? I can make that new flavour part of the repertoire. The same happened with the cream cheeses. I first started with the plain Creamy cheese, and I think I did the Dilly, and the Umami was quite early, too. For Zesty, I was using the plain one at home, and I wanted to eat it with some charred broccoli. And I thought, oh, what can I put it in? Some lemon zest or a bit of pepper? I need something a bit more salty with the broccoli. And then I quite liked the result. So I made it a special flavour that week for the market. And people liked it! And the sales were just equivalent to the other ones. So I was like, okay, I make it a standard range, and it's been really popular since as well. So nice.
So, if I have the capacity to do it, I'll increase the range. So, for example, sometimes now I do make special flavours for the market, but I don't really have the capacity to do them on an ongoing basis just because everything takes a little bit longer and more time to make new cheeses. So I'll make them only when I have some spare time. I focus mostly on distributing the standard base range right now. And now that I am in more shops, it's a bit harder to do those things on the side. I have to fulfil orders in a timely manner. So product development is definitely hard to get the time for, unfortunately, because it's really fun spending time in the kitchen and coming up with new types of cheeses. But it's also time-consuming. But hopefully, with a new facility, I will have more time. With more efficiency, I may have more time to do other things and expand the product range.
How do mainstream people react to your dairy-free, vegan cheeses?
Oh, all sorts of reactions. I definitely had a couple of shocking moments with people who were a bit offended by the thought of plant-based, dairy-free cheese, but I think those people are often offended by other things, too. So that's just not me. And that's like, how do you say it? Water off my back? I don't take it personally anymore. It's like those people have other problems. There are some others who are still a bit off like they don't even want to taste the cheeses. They just see my sign, and they are like, no, I'm not gonna try it. And that's okay. Then, there are also people who are just curious and interested. Some still walk past, and others are like, oh, wow, that's actually really good! It's like, why don't I just eat that? And for me, that's the best kind of moment, obviously, when you convince someone who used to eat a little dairy cheese to just try a non-dairy cheese as well.
And that is the point, that is why I made this company in a way—I thought I could make an alternative good enough to convince people because, for me, previous alternatives that I tried wouldn't really convince someone, and those alternatives would only appeal to people who really wouldn't eat the dairy cheese at all. However, people who are still open to dairy cheese need an alternative that is just as good and tasty. They won't cut something else out for something worse. Only those with strong political and ethical reasons would make such a change, and it is most likely that you can only convince so many people with these reasons. Therefore, I wanted to convince people through worthy flavours. They don't have to sacrifice anything.
These alternatives to animal-based dairy have existed since at least the 13th century. Why do you think it is so difficult for the mainstream to accept that dairy alternatives are "culinary normalcy" in many parts of the world?
I think a lot of people agree with the ethical standpoint of veganism; they don't want to hurt animals, but they are not willing to sacrifice their lifestyle for that. You know, food is very emotional, very cultural. So it can be really hard. And I can understand that. Like, it wasn't easy for me, and, yeah, it still isn't. And because I'm still not fully vegan, I will still make an exception because sometimes I do want to eat something, and I am out and about, and there are no other options, nothing available, so I will just eat that muffin at that point.
So I love when I can actually convince someone who is open to that way of eating as well, and it is like, oh, yeah, why not eat that? Especially here at the Grey Lynn market. I go to the vegan market on Saturdays. Obviously, there are a lot of people who love my cheeses there, and not everyone coming around is fully vegan or anything. Still, they are open-minded. But here in Grey Lynn, I have many more omnivores who I see going to buy eggs and fresh milk, but they will also go and buy my cheese. So, it still makes me happy. So maybe if I don't like to see them buy eggs, I am still grateful that they buy my vegan cheeses and not add further animal suffering on top of that.
The cultural aspect of cow's milk as THE milk, which production is supported with taxpayer money through subsidies, without sufficient animal welfare regulation, is an European-centric construct. Could you explain to our readers why it is important to create alternatives to animal-based dairy?
Cheese has a major impact on the environment because it is made of concentrated milk. And the longer it is stored, the longer and bigger the CO2 impact is. So, old cheese, aged cheese, like Goudas and things like that, have quite the impact. Cutting these kinds of cheeses out and swapping them can actually contribute a lot to reducing emissions.
Especially in New Zealand milk production, I think the whole runoff and water issues is a major problem. We should really rethink why we're doing it. The system in place is a bit tricky, impacting water and obviously also the cows. I'm not sure how well they're doing. It can get very dense, especially for milk production. If you eat beef, it is still not great because you have a huge CO2 impact, but because dairy involves a lot of cows in one place to access the facility where they get milked, it is not great.
In the South Island dairy production areas, you can see the cows all standing in mud fields because there are way too many cows per square metre, which is really bad. Farmers have to fertilise the grass so that it grows. So you have the nitrogen runoff from the fertiliser, and you have all the nitrogen from the cow peeing, and then you have the methane from them burping. Overall, it is like a whole thing increasing the CO2 footprint of Aotearoa, New Zealand, by a substantial margin.
I think agriculture is one of the main drivers, or like the main driver, of carbon emissions in the country, which is pretty crazy, especially when you think it has only been in development since the eighties. Agriculture didn't used to be like that before; it consisted of sheep grazing. Yeah. Which, again, sheep. Sheep are not great either, but at least you didn't have to have them that dense. You didn't have to have that many at one point, and they were subsidised too. So they took the subsidies for sheep away, and they all got replaced by more cows but with denser production. Not great. We need alternatives to this system.
Could you expand on the health benefits of cultured dairy-free cheese?
I find that nutritional information is tricky because there is often conflicting information, and it can be difficult to study. Some studies, for example, looked at mice, and it's like, well, are mice actually representable of humans, or shall we be looking at people who ate this versus people who ate that? And people who tend to eat differently also have different lifestyles. I found it hard to pick apart what food is really good for health or not. I struggle with that because there are so many different people. But I believe cutting out animal fats or reducing them as much as possible is good for you, the same way I believe cutting sugar is probably good, too.
I think there are some foods that are better than others and healthier for you, especially if you eat non-dairy cheese. I would say that my cream cheese is probably a slightly healthier product than my hard cheese. But still, I find it hard to tell just because it depends on many parameters. For example, if you want to avoid refined flour, I use white rice flour in the product. So, if you want to avoid that, then eat my cream cheese instead of hard cheese. But if you don't, then that's fine to eat this one. So it just really depends on what you believe is healthy for you, I guess. So it's really hard for me to see if my cheeses are better than dairy cheese health-wise. Every vegan cheese is formulated differently, and so are a lot of cheeses, such as dairy cheeses. So it's really hard for me to make up a statement on what to avoid. Some people believe that coconut oil is the devil, and some believe coconut oil is lovely.
I just get more and more confused the more I do research and listen to, including podcasts about nutrition; there's just an opinion for everything. So overall, I do think that non-dairy cheeses are healthier, and I think it is healthier to eat whole foods rather than refined foods. But also, I believe there's nothing wrong with taking exceptions to have some pleasure in your life. So, if you want cheese to be a food pleasure, I think it should be as good as an animal-based product. But it's nicer if you have this food pleasure as non-animal based.
What do you like to do in your free time, outside of Sonntag? How do you balance work and leisure? Do you have any practice that helps you stay grounded? Passions?
Balancing work and leisure is tough because, as a sole business owner, there is always something you could do about work, like the newsletter could be written, etc. During the week, I make the cheeses and pack them, then deliver and do administrative tasks with business growth on top of that. And also market stalls on weekends. I probably crack 40 to 45 hours a week for Sonntag. It is hard because I can just prepare an email here and there, and my brain doesn't quite shut down. I feel that sometimes I do take risks by working too much, but fortunately, I also know now when I am overdoing a little bit, learning from previous office jobs, I know myself, and when I feel that my brain just needs to shut down quickly. So I will try to keep some free time.
I like to spend time in the garden. I think gardening is my most 'shutting off the brain' kind of thing. It is quite relaxing being outside, digging in the dirt, and picking the tomatoes when it is the season. It is a grounding practice. For sports, I used to do a lot of climbing. That's one of those things about work-life balance that I would love to bring back. But it takes a lot of time to get there because it takes several hours. You have to want to do that, and it is tricky to find the time. So once in a while, I pack and go with a friend, climbing on a wall or stone fields.
I also like to do creative things, like building things, I guess, in a way. They are quite small things, nothing too big. But I got to design things because my boyfriend got really into woodworking, and I knew a little bit about that, too. And I can make some stuff, but he's really happy now to really hone that craft, so I come up with ideas, and he builds them. This hobby goes back into industrial design. I do the draft and the original sketch, imagine the dimensions he needs, put a little plan together, and then it comes to life. So that's really nice to see.
What advice would you give to people who want to start a sustainable-minded business?
It's a good question! First, something I noticed while talking to some other people about their business, is, like, if they had known what they got themself into, they would have never started it. So I guess I would say you need a little bit of naivety. Yeah. Don't know too much about it, but do test your idea well.
If you want to make your life easier, set some money aside but still be frugal. Don't spend it all on things you like. Be in the mindset of 'I am investing now'. Try to be clever about where you put the money.
Also, get mentors. Ask someone's advice. I do have a mentor now. A bit later in the process, but that has been helpful. And also, like, through the markets, I guess I got a lot of mentoring and just, like, running past ideas and those kinds of things. So knowing people who have done similar things in the past that's a big help. And be open to their advice, but also be critical because, again, like I said, there's no right solution for everyone.
Also, it is tough to make a real product, it is different from delivering a service, I think a service is easier to develop as a single person. So, if you want to build a real product, you have to be at a certain scale. You have to be aware of that. For example, if you want to live off your work, just being a market stockholder is not enough.
What is next on the agenda for you? Do you have any projects coming up that you want to share about?
Being into more retail shops, more places across Aotearoa, New Zealand. I am already in Christchurch and in Wellington, in a couple of shops and hopefully more. I have to find the right balance of a small shop where they don't want massive amounts of things but, at the same time, the right turnover for me to keep getting supply on demand. I do short-shelf life products. So that's the thing. It needs to be in the fridge, but every shop has only so much space. They will think twice about whether they want to stock this product.
And as I said earlier, I'm moving into a new kitchen. So that's exciting. It is going to keep me busy for the next couple of months. Getting settled in the new place, getting everything there, and increasing my production.
Thank you so much, Helena! To reach out, send her an email or connect on Instagram. If you’d like to purchase Sonntag dairy-free cheese, the list of stockists is here. You can also find Helena at the Shed Collective Farmer’s Market on Saturdays and Grey Lynn Farmers Market on Sundays in Tāmaki Makaurau, Auckland.
[This interview has been edited for grammar and clarity.]
